A Few Things To Stop Doing When You Find a Feminist Blog
Well, That’s Really Interesting, But Have You Perhaps Considered The Status Quo? Just My Two Cents
This takes way too many forms. Some examples:
- Have you perhaps considered that women sometimes act like bitches?
- Have you perhaps considered that men are ignorant of their own acts of cruelty and oppression (and thus blameless)?
- Have you perhaps considered that others may be made uncomfortable when you discuss oppression?
- Have you perhaps considered that stereotypes are there for a reason?
- Have you perhaps considered that sometimes men get treated really shitty and unfairly because of their gender?
- Have you perhaps considered taking the oppressor’s face in your hands, gently smoothing back hir hair, softly and sweetly whispering your message in hir ears with lots of words like “maybe” “sort of” and “I’m not blaming you”? I think the people who treat you horribly would be very receptive to that. Just my two cents.
In fact, I have considered all these things! Have you?
I ask because these things I have considered are precisely why I am a feminist. Over the course of my lifetime, I have considered these things and more, and come to the conclusion that these things are shitty and unfair and wrong – for men and women – and ought to be remedied immediately and without delay. And that is why I am a feminist.
Have you, sir or madam, considered that:
- Women cannot behave poorly without it becoming a reflection on their entire gender, and/or having their behavior attributed to their possession of a vagina as opposed to just, you know, their personality. Women can be shitty people without being shitty women, and that is why I am a feminist.
- Men have the privilege of being blissfully unaware of the things they do that oppress half the population, which causes a) oppression of women and b) shitty broken lives for men, who are now unable to fully connect with or derive joy from one entire half of the population that , and that is why I am a feminist.
- Others are made uncomfortable when I describe the blatant injustices done worldwide due to the cultural segregation of gender because they see ways in which they have participated in this or support it and it’s scary and frustrating and sad and unhappy to realize that you have hurt many people that you love out of ignorance and you didn’t ask to be raised that way, and that is why I am a feminist.
- Stereotypes exist pretty clearly to benefit the current social order, and when somebody enacts the stereotype perfectly, it becomes evidence for the stereotype, and when somebody acts in the complete opposite of the stereotype, they are exceptions and also fall into other very convenient stereotypes (dyke, fag, liberal). And most stereotypes, if you examine them closely, are full of the kind of survival habits that a person would develop were they being abused terribly, so perhaps it is not a surprise that abused populations behave in these ways, and perhaps it is not a surprise that the people who abuse them take these habits and use them as an excuse for further abuse, and that is why I am a feminist.
- Men are boxed in by expected gendered behaviors nearly as tightly as women, and often experience consequences as violent and deplorable as women do when stepping out of those boxes. (The big difference is, when men stay in their boxes and perform their gendered behaviors well, they only experience the internal dissatisfaction of having their feelings and inner lives destroyed; men will not be attacked for acting as men. Women can be attacked for staying in their boxes and performing well, because even if they act like the perfect woman, they are still women, and still worth less than men.) Men, like women, must sacrifice an enormous portion of their personality and needs and desires in order to behave as their expected gender, and not ever ever ever behave as the “opposite” gender, and that makes men and women have shittier lives together. Masculine gendered behaviors couldn’t exist without something to define themselves against, something they are not, something they are different than, and that thing is our sick cultural idea of femaleness, and that is why I am a feminist.
- I have considered this one! I have done this one. I have also tried not doing this. Funny thing: you get the same result either way. And that result is based on the person you are talking to. You know, based on the way they choose to react, instead of your tone of voice, kind smile, and Circadian rhythms at the time. Everybody has their own responsibility to choose how to approach the inequities of the world; many people choose to slough off that responsibility onto the messenger, because they can, because they have that privilege, because to listen to the messenger and agree with them means the immediate end of that privilege. So it’s a lot easier to make up some way for the message to be generally true (because who wants to be the champion of “unequal rights are for the best! Rape is okay!”) without requiring any action on behalf of the receiver of the message (“Well, she made some good points about rape being wrong, but she was wearing a shirt I didn’t care for and also mispronounced Lucretia, so I don’t really think I have to care about rape yet…”). And that is why I am a feminist, because nobody should have the right to dismiss another human being (or entire groups of human beings) based entirely upon the tone of their voice and the style of their hair.
Here is the thing, okay? Coming into a feminist conversation with, “Have you considered that sometimes women acquire free drinks at bars?” is like walking into graduate school during Philosophy finals and saying, “Have you considered that the color blue that I see may not be the color blue that you see?”
Imagine you are the guy who just walked into that Philosophy class and laid that shit down. Imagine the class full of students who have worked very hard and committed themselves and sacrificed to be here, students who have spent several years of their lives learning about this subject. Imagine now their feelings when you go to the head of the classroom with a smirk on your face and demand the professor give you an A for effort. Imagine now that they think you are a douchebag asshole, because they do, and because you are. You are a douchebag asshole because you are obviously so self-centered, arrogant, and completely ignorant of the world around you, that you thought you could walk into a high-level course with no background and no work and say something profoundly simplistic and totally unrelated and also everybody should congratulate you for having done this thing, so brave, so provocative.
Okay, so that might be a little more abstract of an example. How about something more people are likely familiar with? Imagine you work very hard at your job, and yet you have a boss who is a fucking moron. Your boss knows nothing about the work the company does. Your boss doesn’t even know the names of the products. All your boss knows how to do, apparently, is walk around with a very smug look on their face, occasionally saying something like, “Have we considered… advertising our product?” and waiting for the advertising department to praise such a profound and remarkable idea. And if you do not praise your boss, your boss gets angry. Your boss tells you that you are not a team player. Your boss tells you that they got where they are by hard work and ingenuity and hustle, and you could show a little bit more of that, don’t you think? Also, have you considered using this new internet thing he’s hearing so much about? That’s why he gets paid the big bucks, you know, ideas like that.
This is what you do when you walk into a feminist conversation and ask whether or not we have considered that sometimes men get turned down by girls they like and that hurts their feelings.
You are not asking us a real question. You are simply illustrating, for all to see, your own ignorance. You are saying, “I have not considered the implications of the question I have just asked. I have not taken the time nor effort nor commitment to sit down and ask myself this question. Instead, I have come into your philosophy classroom/office/feminist blog and shit out my question with a smirk, because I believe that my two seconds of thought are worth more than your long-term analysis, because I believe I am worth more.”
Also, coming in with your “just my two cents!” shitbag makes you sound like the porn star roundtable in Southland Tales:
Shoshana Cox: I have a question for the Supreme Court. What happens when a woman has sex on a flight from London to Los Angeles… then takes the morning-after pill while flying across the time zone?
Krysta Now: I don’t know.
Shoshana Cox: Then it becomes the morning-before pill.
Deena Storm: You are a genius!
Shoshana Cox: Hello! Can’t answer to that!
Krysta Now: Holy shit! That is brilliant!
Why You Gotta Be Mean To Dudes Just Trying To Say Hi, I Mean, Yeah, Of Course People Think You’re Crazy
When I talk about screaming at some dude to GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU, I am not talking about this guy:
Who comes up to you and says this, “I’m sorry to bother you, I just wanted to tell you that you’re very, very pretty,” and then leaves you alone when you choose not to respond with anything more than, “Thank you.”
I am not talking about this guy:
Who comes up to you and says, “I love that Ursula K. LeGuin book! But have you read the sequel? It’s even better!”
I am talking about this guy:
This guy who gives you the bug-eye (it seriously looks just like this, guys):
And then approaches you with this, which he has determined is an appropriate topic of conversation:
There are a lot of little differences, such as personal hygiene and basic understanding of social boundaries. But the big difference is, a normal, appropriate, and actually nice guy who approaches you on the street is approaching you because he thinks you look pretty and/or interesting and would like to get to know you better, and if such a thing leads to sex he would not be complaining at all. An abnormal, inappropriate, Nice Guy ™ who approaches you on the street is approaching you because he has already been blatantly eye-fucking you (see the bug-eye, this is exactly what it looks like) and is just coming over to seal the deal. You are a woman who is there for sex and they are going to acquire you for sex and if you turn them down, nicely or no, the hostility that emanates from them is like a fucking wave. Because you are not just an individual turning down another individual; you are representative of all women turning him down, you are representative of all women being mean alien bitches, you are representative of all women deserving his hatred.
I am not advocating that all women scream at any man who approaches them within a certain radius (though I am advocating that all men take a moment to consider whether or not any particular woman looks like she really wants to be bothered right now). I am advocating that all women have the right to scream at any creepy fuck who thinks he has the right to invade her personal space and continue invading it regardless of her reaction. I am also advocating that all women (and all people) have the right to listen to their gut and stop interactions before they start when the person provoking the interaction is giving off an exceedingly hostile vibe, because all people have the right to maintain their safety, and that right overrides anybody else’s “right” to come up and talk about how much they want to kill their ex-girlfriend because you are sharing a bus stop together and have really pretty hair and I think you could understand me.
And I am saying that if you, fellows, have ever tried to hit on a woman nicely and she reacted in a way that you thought was over-the-top or extreme, you have two options here:
- Maybe she’s a really crazy person (please note: she is not a crazy woman, she is a crazy person), so lucky for you that she telegraphed that immediately instead of halfway through a conversation or a date
- Maybe you are not as nice as you thought, and all that hostility and anger and entitlement you thought you were covering pretty smoothly is actually extremely visible and extremely gross
You don’t have a third option, the option of “All women are obviously crazy bitches,” or “You are obviously a crazy bitch.” That option is actually just option number 2, sans self-awareness.
I Don’t Want To Say I Was Abused Or Raped Because That Cheapens Abuse and Rape/Some Girls Ruin It For The Rest Of Us
Let’s make this simple.
Rape and abuse exist. They’re horrible and they’re wrong.
The only way rape and abuse can be less horrible is if we don’t value the person who is being raped or abused.
Let’s Godwin’s Law this: Hitler is being raped and abused. How much do you care?
Okay, let’s back this up realistically. Your sister is being raped and abused. How much do you care?
A woman who sleeps with a lot of people and callously disregards their feelings is being raped and abused. How much do you care?
A woman who was drinking heavily at the club and hanging off every single guy is being raped and abused. How much do you care?
The only way rape and abuse can be cheapened is if we cheapen the victims. They aren’t cheapened by expanding the definition of victim. If rape and abuse are horrible and wrong, then more victims just equals more horrible and more wrong. But we can cheapen rape and abuse by limiting the definition of victims we give a shit about.
There does not exist the possibility of cheapening rape and abuse if rape and abuse are considered to be inherently horrible and wrong. No matter how few or how many victims, it is inherently horrible and wrong for each of them. There exists the possibility of becoming desensitized to the horribleness and wrongness when the number of victims reaches critical mass (thought experiment: try to imagine the experience of all the women and men being raped in the Congo and see if your brain doesn’t just burn out before you reach the point of major and crippling depression), but there does not exist the possibility of rape and abuse no longer being horrible and wrong based on who is victimized (and/or who is perpetrating).
But if rape and abuse are horrible and wrong only when committed upon certain people,
Then there exists the possibility of cheapening rape and abuse by trying to include people for whom rape and abuse are deserved and right.
That logic train can only exist if we live in a society that believes in some cases, for some people, abuse and rape are deserved and right. Only if some people deserve to be treated horribly and wrongly can we have a situation where something that is horrible and wrong can be cheapened by the amount and type of victims experiencing it.
A person can flounder about whether or not they want to call themselves a rape or abuse victim for a lot of personal reasons. Nobody really wants to identify themselves as a victim; it’s humiliating. And if the potential for being victimized again exists, then what’s the point? Why admit that something wrong happened to you, and deal with the emotional fallout of that, when that something is just going to happen again tomorrow? And admitting to having been victimized doesn’t happen in a vacuum. You may have to change your life to exclude the perpetrator, and allies of the perpetrator, which sometimes can add up to all your friends and family. You may have to admit that if this thing the perpetrator did was abuse, then this thing your family does is also abuse, as well, and you can’t make a moral stand that the one thing is wrong without confronting the other. All that shit takes time to work through.
But most people won’t say all that, because that stuff gets into some other sticky territory, like: Is there something inherently wrong with me if I’m a victim? or Why does my abuser have so many allies? And the answers to those questions can sound a lot like feminism. So a convenient and acceptable cultural shorthand to express misgivings about whether or not you personally want to be identified with that crap is to say, “I don’t want to say that what happened to me was rape because that cheapens it for other women who were raped worse.”
On the flip side, you’ll have people (mostly women, I’ve found) that express an extreme amount of hostility toward women who are not likable and worthwhile victims claiming to have been raped. They express the same amount of hostility towards women who have not claimed they have been raped, but are behaving in ways that would make them unlikable and non-worthwhile victims if they were to be raped.
“Look at that fucking girl. She’s hardly wearing anything. She’s so drunk, and she’s just rubbing her ass all over everybody in the club. If she gets raped, it’s going to be her fault.”
If we live in a culture in which certain abuses are always, inherently, unforgivably horrible and wrong, then the responsibility for those abuses always rests upon the perpetrator, who has done something horrible and wrong.
If we live in a culture in which some people are unvalued enough that we are allowed to commit certain abuses upon their bodies without those abuses being considered horrible and wrong,
Then the responsibility lies with those unvalued people for acting/living/being in unvalued ways, and “choosing” to be unvalued becomes the thing that is horrible and wrong, because it was the existence of an unvalued person that created the abuse and the rape (instead of the existence of a perpetrator).
And if those unvalued people are not born with a birthmark that says “unvalued”, if they are not an inherent biological class, then that un-value must be acquired through behavior and appearance and activity.
And if that un-value can be acquired, then anybody may acquire it, accidentally or purposefully.
And if anybody may acquire that un-value, then anybody may be abused with abandon, provided they bear a passing resemblance to the unvalued class (note: this applies to raped and abused men, too, who will have their masculinity mocked as a way to identify them with the rapeable unvalued class).
And then you end up with “women who are ruining it for the rest of us.”
What that really means is, there are women who deserve to be raped and abused, and by their very existence, they put me in danger of being raped and abused, because somebody might mistake me for them.
These ideas — the cheapening of abuse and women who make it worse for other women — can only exist in a culture that already believes that abuse can be cheapened, and that some people deserve to be abused. If we believed that abuse was always wrong, no matter who the victim (or who the perpetrator), abuse could not possibly be cheapened, and no woman could ruin it for another.
If these ideas exist in your brain, if you have said these words, it’s because you swallowed this line completely. It’s because you believe some people deserve to be abused. That’s a dangerous and frightening belief to have. If you believe that some people deserve to be abused, if you open that door, you might find that you or somebody you love is behind it. And they totally deserved it, too.
Trackbacks and Pingbacks
- The “R” Word: “Made of Glass” and “Broken Goods” *trigger warning* « Genderbitch: An Angry Trans Girl's Blog
- I Wish I Could Recite This IRL, Too « This Is What a Feminist Looks Like
- Quote of the Day: No A for effort. | A Division by Zer0
- A few things to stop doing when you find a feminist blog… | Birds Before The Storm
- » "Here is the thing, okay? Coming into a feminist conversation with, “Have you considered that…" Todo Michael Jackson
- Link Love « Becky's Kaleidoscope
- 10 Arguments for God that Have Never and Will Never Convince Me « The Truth As I Saw It Today
- Worth reading – Part VI at Purple NoiZe
- The Funny thing about Thought Catalog’s SlutWalk Article (It’s Not Funny) | TrainBust
- This is rape culture | Edinburgh Eye
- I Wear Stretchy Purple Shorts Under Everything « the small end of nothing
Comments are closed.
You have rapidly become my go-to place to help me clearly and consicesly unpack all the societal underpinnings of why people react the way they do in these situations. I quote you near daily. Can I just say I am nearly as careful about who I talk to about my fledgling feminism as I am about my gang-rape? Also, I was about to complement you on your “reasonable” or less inflammatory approach to answering the comments you are obviously getting–largely because of my discomfort on some other pro-feminist sites that attack the “douchehound of the day” and so forth. While intellectually understanding that it’s their house, and their right to create a safe space and call people on their shit, the approach still makes me uncomfortable. And I am growing to realize it makes me uncomfortable because I am buying into the societal expectation that women be accepting and considered and kind in their responses. I even rationalized it by thinking that a softer, educating approach would be more likely to effect change. When in actuality, no one needs to be kind in the face of a daily assault of misogyny, and it is not anyone’s job to educate idiots in feminism 101 over and over again. That this approach is as valid as any other. So, sorry for the partial hijack–I got a little excited there. Anyhow, thank you, thank you, thank you, for giving me more tools and ideas and ways to look at these behaviors. I am continually impressed with your abilities.
You are the best!
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So where does the “I don’t want to say I’m abused because that cheapens it for people who were actually abused” fall when the person saying it was abused? Is that just another way of saying “I don’t want to say I’m abused because that cheapens it for people who were abused worse than me?”
I’m apparently wicked conflicted about this. D:
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I am downright shocked that you managed to write a post that supports my (sometimes faltering) faith in humanity *even while* including that video by Demonius X. Seriously, a year ago, 10 seconds of that crap would have sent me back to bed. And yet, calling out that kind of logic as skewed rather than normal is MUCH needed, and greatly appreciated.
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And what I described in comment above is really just another version of #6, isn’t it?
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I’m not sure I understand you fully, so I may not be answering your question here.
There are lots and lots of reasons that a person who has been abused may not want to say they have been abused. I’m not judging those reasons; everybody has to do what’s right for them, and there are times and places where saying “I’ve been abused” isn’t safe, helpful, or relevant.
The “I don’t want to cheapen it for others who were abused” reason can only exist in a society that believes abuse can be cheapened. Trying to describe all the much more complicated reasons a person might not want to say they were abused in the kind of society that believes some people deserve abuse can open a victim up to a level of vulnerability and attack that they just don’t want to fucking deal with. So, instead, you say, “I don’t want to cheapen abuse,” because it’s a reason more people will accept as valid without question, because there are more people who believe abuse can be cheapened — and will accept that excuse without argument — than there are people who believe nobody deserves to be abused ever, for any reason, and it’s not the victim’s fault.
Saying, “I don’t want to say I was abused because that might make everybody around me mad when I ask them not to speak to my abuser,” to somebody who thinks most “victims” are stupid nasty people making hysterical accusations might net a really vicious and painful response. Saying, “I don’t want to cheapen what abuse really means,” to the same person might instead get you a nod and agreement, because that person agrees that only certain people abuse, only certain people get abused, and only certain things count as abuse. If you were to tell them your abuse story, and if your abuse story didn’t match up with all their beliefs about who does and doesn’t get abused, and what abuse is, you might get a nasty response. Because you might be hitting a nerve.
I’m not saying there’s something wrong with victims who use that line; people have to navigate their shit however is safest to them. I am saying there’s something deeply wrong with a culture that accepts that excuse at face value as normal and logical, instead of saying, “Hey, what the fuck, abuse can’t be cheapened.”
You are the best!
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That does answer my question! Thanks.
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I can understand the logic of there not being “better rape” and “worse rape” (or perhaps, more and less harmful rape), but at what point does that cross over into not allowing people to define their own experiences?
I was in a really terrible relationship where the consent was often questionable, but it never occured to me to call it rape because it didn’t feel like a violation in my head. Afterwards, someone tried to pressure me into joining their rape-survivors group because clearly I should be defining myself that way. Don’t I get to *pick* what I do and don’t want to define myself and my experiences with?
There has to be a way to say “you are mis-defining my experience” without saying “I deserved it” or “other people have it worse so I don’t count.”
You are the best!
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My problem isn’t with victims defining themselves and their experiences. Victims can do that however they like, because they’re the only ones who have any kind of accurate or relevant idea about what their needs are at any given moment. If a victim wants to find some way to blame herself, that may give her some sense of control that she really needs right now. If a victim wants to not identify herself with other victims, that may help make her feel less traumatized right now. If a victim wants to chalk a rape up to a misunderstanding, that probably makes her feel safer, especially if she still has to be in the company of her rapist sometimes. Those aren’t irrelevant, irrational, or inappropriate things for a victim to do or want; when a victim needs something else, she can change her beliefs to help fulfill those needs, and that’s her prerogative.
I have no problem with any given individual using “I don’t want to cheapen the definition of rape or abuse” to deal with their own problems at that moment in time. What I have a problem with is the fact that if somebody is using that reason, it’s because they live in a society that considers that a logical thing to say. That is, they live in a society that really believes rape or abuse can be cheapened. And that implies that there are “real” rape and abuse victims and “fake” ones, that there are rapes and abuses that are completely wrong and completely horrible, and there are rapes and abuses that are maybe not so wrong, maybe not that bad, and maybe aren’t things we need to really condemn or punish or even care all that much about. I have a problem with the idea that there is some way to make “real” rape and abuse less real, as if one false rape cry would unleash the boundaries of all civilized society, and we would suddenly all believe rape is okay. If abuse and rape is wrong, it is always wrong. To believe that there are circumstances where rape and abuse are sometimes not that wrong means you don’t actually believe something about rape and abuse as standalone concepts; you believe something about context. And what you believe about context can illustrate a lot about what you believe about victims and perpetrators.
(Note I’m using “you” as a general pronoun here; I’m not talking about you in particular.)
This is not about victims, and how they choose to define themselves. It’s about overarching societal beliefs about rape and abuse, and who does and doesn’t deserve to have our protection from rape and abuse. If I were speaking to somebody who I believed was a victim of abuse, and they told me they didn’t want to say they’d been abused because that would cheapen the definition of abuse, I wouldn’t demand that she admit — right now — that she has been abused. I would say that I didn’t personally believe abuse could be cheapened, and I might say that I personally believed society can only believe in cheapened abuse if it also believed in cheapened people, and that’s not something I can say I endorse.
I think there are plenty of victims who will use the “cheapened” excuse because it’s an easier and more socially acceptable way to express their ambivalence about processing what’s happened to them. For a victim to get into the nitty-gritty details of what they’re thinking and feeling about their experience at any given moment is a really vulnerable thing to do, and even more so if they’re not sure about the perception or loyalties of who they’re talking to. So using the “cheapened” excuse is a quick and dirty way to say, “I don’t want to be treated like a victim right now,” without having to get into some possibly distressing conversations with somebody who maybe thinks that abuse can sometimes be something less than horrible and wrong.
But I also believe there are plenty of victims who use that excuse because they’re extremely afraid that if they disclose their abuse, they will be told it wasn’t real abuse, they are not real victims, and they are somehow hurting “the cause” by claiming that they are. I don’t believe there’s any way to hurt the idea that abuse and rape is wrong, qualitatively and in all situations, unless you already believe that abuse and rape is only wrong sometimes, in some ways, with some people. I don’t think the “cheapened” excuse could exist in a society that believed all humans had an inviolate right to not be abused or raped, for any reason. Victims use whatever tools are handy to deal with their rapes and abuses. The “cheapened” excuse is there and exists, so victims are sometimes going to use it. That’s their right, and I have no issue with that whatsoever. I do have an issue with the fact that we live in a society in which the “cheapened” excuse exists and appears logical and defensible, where the “cheapened” excuse is available as a tool at all.
You are the best!
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After reading “You are not asking us a real question. You are simply illustrating, for all to see, your own ignorance. You are saying, “I have not considered the implications of the question I have just asked. I have not taken the time nor effort nor commitment to sit down and ask myself this question. Instead, I have come into your philosophy classroom/office/feminist blog and shit out my question with a smirk, because I believe that my two seconds of thought are worth more than your long-term analysis, because I believe I am worth more.” Also, coming in with your “just my two cents!” shitbag makes you sound…” I am tempted to respond to the next [Idiotic comment - just my two cents!] with “This discussion has a $100 ante.”
You are the best!
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Seconding the person who said you are *damn* good at taking these things and unpacking them until they shine forth so clearly that they seem obvious in retrospect.
Thanks for what you write.
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Saved.
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I found your philosophy analogy apropos.
Also, thumbs up for Kant-esque ethics.
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Got directed here, and thank you for this. This defines a lot that I have felt but can’t express (with the downside that the more I explore my feminist side the more aware I become and therefore become more frustrated at often well-meaning people who continue to uphold in ignorance, the status quo). Ignorance really can be bliss in some ways. That said, I’ll take self-awareness and frustration and open discussion and change over the alternative, any day.
I really liked also how you specify (moreso in the comments/replies) about how the perception of the victim colors our understanding of rape and abuse. I hadn’t thought of it in those terms, but that’s very true. Where you said To believe that there are circumstances where rape and abuse are sometimes not that wrong means you don’t actually believe something about rape and abuse as standalone concepts; you believe something about context. made me sit up and go, “yes. This.”
I’ve never personally heard someone say they thought someone deserved to get raped, more that they would say “She was asking for it” thereby implying that it isn’t rape because her actions themselves are implicit consent. Personally, I think when a woman says “No” she really means no, but apparently people persist in believing that actions speak louder than words. Or perhaps more accurately, that the way they perceive one’s actions speaks louder than words.
Thanks for an excellent analysis here and for giving me something about which to think.
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Great post Harriet. That creepy guy picture is great.
There have been a few high profile rape cases in the media over here lately which have illustrated to me a glaring defect in the common knowledge about rape. In every case, the issue has been whether it was rape or consensual sex. And one thing has come through loud and clear: rape in this country is defined by whether or not a woman is kicking and screaming, rather than whether or not she has given her consent. Consent is still defined as the absence of a no, rather than the presence of a yes.
I think this is a huge factor in why women say “I Don’t Want To Say I Was Abused Or Raped Because That Cheapens Abuse and Rape.”
The women and girls who stood up and said publicly that they were raped have all been told they wanted it and it was consensual, because they weren’t kicking and screaming. They have been derided and ridiculed, even though they were too scared to kick and scream. Everyone has said ‘she didn’t say no, therefore she consented’. No one has bothered to find out whether she was asked, or whether she said yes. In every case it was called ‘sex’ in the media, not rape – but if the woman had called it sex, even once, to one person, it was held up as evidence that ‘it can’t have been rape because she called it sex.’
Everyone drinks in this definition of rape with the water. Women honestly think ‘well he didn’t have a gun, he wasn’t a stranger, I’d been at his house and I wasn’t kicking or screaming. I’m going to have to defend my reasons for calling this rape when everyone will tell me it wasn’t. I’m going to be compared to women who were jumped by a stranger in a park with a knife, women who kicked and screamed. I don’t want to cheapen their experience by putting mine in the same category.’ We all somehow drink in those ideas that it’s worse to be raped by a stranger than someone you know, or that if you’d agreed to have sex with one footballer then twelve of his mates must equal twelve times the fun rather than a frightening gang rape. We all think that, unless something happens to shatter our illusions, because that’s what we’re told.
It’s those damn schema that tell us all that stranger rape is horrifying while date rape is just another scene to carry the plot along. And whenever women stand up and say hey, actually it’s horrifying to be raped by someone you know – well, you know all too well what happens then. Hello, facebook awkwardness.
Vicious, vicious circles.
You are the best!
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And then there’s the way that English (and, probably, other languages) uses the passive voice to eliminate the rapist, and focus on the victim. The woman gets raped; Hitler is being raped and abused. The actor disappears behind the passive construction. We don’t habitually say, someone rapes the woman; or, a rapist abuses and rapes Hitler. We hear about a victim and say “she was raped” not “some man raped her”.
You are the best!
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I love what you wrote. I myself was having a conversation with my friend. One of our coworkers is pregnant and having a boy, this made me really happy. I then started wondering why having a boy meant more to me than a girl as well, I am one.
I came to the conclusion that being female sucks. It does in this society. As a child I could see the differences clearly and I always wished I was male. Not getting a sex change, I am happy in my own physical situation I just want to be treated male.
Anyway, in addition to the abuse coming out about it on top of the humiliation is the “LIAR” and “CRAZY” that will get strapped to you. Even to the point you believe it yourself, I mean, how could your whole family be abusive? How?
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Would you be offended if I walked up to this post on the street and told it I want to have sex with it? Because this is the best thing I’ve read on the internet in a looong time.
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Just as long as you say it like Guy #1 or Guy #2 would, and not Guy-Smarm #3!
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i would love to feature your blog on raven’s eye. raveneye.org
i have been reading it for the past week and i love it. raven’s eye is woman of color (cis and trans) centered site and i feel that a lot of what you are writing would be excellent to feature there. thanks for this.
primitivedragonfly at yahoo dot com
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oh and can i say that i fell off the bed laughing at the pic of guy 3. oh god. and then the bug eye. my partner was making dinner and i had to run and see what was so funny…
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Knock yourself out!
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And victims are taught to minimize their abuse. I’m sure we’ve all known people whose parents abused them but who brush it off because, dude, it wasn’t like my mom raped me, she just beat me up all the time, man, I know people who were beated with bicycle chains and starved so, you know, I don’t want to say I was abused…
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Oh, I know, I know, you’ve heard this one, right?
“It wasn’t abuse! My parents just loved me… in their way.”
ARGGGGGH
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I am SO forwarding this to my friend. We had an srgument about this post yesterday: http://web.archive.org/web/20070716111952/http://pandagon.net/2007/04/13/how-to-not-be-an-asshole-a-guide-for-men/
He agreed with the post but thought that ‘mike’ in the comments was getting flamed for no reason – for just asking an honest question.
Thankyou for articulating why it was a dishonest question.
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holy shitballs!!! you’re AWESOME!!
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Bravo! I love how you’ve laid it out.
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I know everyone else loves the photo of the inappropriate man. I fear, however, that the pictures kind of cloud the issue. I have had this conversation several times: No, I saw that SNL skit on sexual harassment too, and creepy is creepy, no matter how attractive a guy is.
In fact, the notion that unattractive men are considered creepy only because they’re unattractive lets a lot of guys off the hook too easily, I think. “I guess if I looked like Brad Pitt–” they say, when actually it’s their behavior that’s the turn off, and not their appearance.
Without the photos maybe that would be clearer.
Great post, as always. On a different topic, I’m kind of finding it hilarious that the “possibly related posts” section has linked to something called “Man Up Men,” which (based on two minutes of research that I’ll never get back) looks awful.
You are the best!
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THIS!
I get so tired of people referring to rape and abuse as something that “happened.” As in, “I’m sorry about what happened to you.” “How do you deal with what happened to you?”
LOOK! Nothing HAPPENED, but someone DID SOMETHING. Rape is not a hurricane, it is not an earthquake, it is not a full moon. It doesn’t happen, it is committed.
You are the best!
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I don’t know that I agree that it is ever okay to approach a woman and comment on her appearance. I’ve been having this discussion lately. I think commenting on a woman’s appearance (as a man who has no legitimate reason to be speaking to this woman) comes from a place of “I am a man and you are a woman, therefor your body and appearance is on display for my approval.”
I also would disagree with the picture representation.
You are the best!
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You always put things so brilliantly. I get jealous of your way with words + pictures sometimes.
The discussion of the rape/abuse downplay resonated with me. A lot of the reasons for my denial actually stem from not wanting to deal with people who would decide that I deserved it because I got so completely drunk or because I didn’t fight back through the haze of being utterly trashed. Or because I didn’t tell anyone, didn’t go to the police, didn’t even know to go to the police because I just blocked it out.
Or that I wasn’t really abused because I had stayed in the relationship for so long.
Or, and this one really sucks, that I deserved it because I’m trans and had a penis at the time of the assault, ergo I can’t be raped.
That’s the main reason why I couldn’t use the word rape to describe it for so long. Why I kept calling it a “bad situation” or “the incident” and why I still often use the word sexual assault instead of rape to describe what happened. I mean sure, there was also denial, self blame (can’t be rape if I deserved it, right?) and fear (that mutual “friends” would tell the person in question and that person would come after me).
But mostly I didn’t want to hear people not believing me or patronizing me or echoing those voices in my head that told me I had it coming to me for being in that relationship in the first place.
This entry helped. Thank you.
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I love your style. I have added this blog to my google reader and tweeted several of your posts.
Please consider cross-posting at http://sexgenderbody.com. Your voice would make a welcome addition to the community.
Also, you may like http://feminisnt.com. You may enjoy her site as much as I do.
Either way, keep up the solid and passionate writing.
-arvan
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As long as you take no for an answer and don’t get angry.
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So I’ve only just commented on the thread about comments, which feels like kind of the wrong time to bring up another inclusivity quibble! and most of this post I agreed with anyway.
but this bit:
(The big difference is, when men stay in their boxes and perform their gendered behaviors well, they only experience the internal dissatisfaction of having their feelings and inner lives destroyed; men will not be attacked for acting as men. Women can be attacked for staying in their boxes and performing well, because even if they act like the perfect woman, they are still women, and still worth less than men.)
I found myself wondering: is that actually true for men of color? Or should it really have said “when white men stay in their boxes…”?
I don’t know – it’s a genuine question. I’m not male and I’m not of colour, and I’m very aware that such anti-racist perceptive abilities as I have are “work in progress”.
I just have this suspicion that {being a man of colour} might be really different in its cultural acceptance from {being a white man}, and maybe there are times when “being a man” would get men of colour attacked (albeit not in the same way as women, or not always in the same way as women). Or at least that there are differences in how it’s culturally construed, which would mean we can’t really generalise in the same sentence about all groups of men, in this context.
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You’re right. I hadn’t realized that the unconscious image of “man” that I had in my head there was in fact totally white. And while men of color have male privilege, you’re also right that it doesn’t have the same overriding power in all contexts as white male privilege. There are times when asserting a culturally-approved masculinity can be as dangerous to men of color as asserting a culturally-approved femininity would be.
Thanks for pointing that out; I hadn’t even registered what my mind’s eye was doing there.
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Thankyou thankyou thankyou for saying that so clearly,I have always been bad at expressing exactly these thoughts/feelings,and I’m so glad to find someone who can say these things well.I really don’t know what to say (except,again,thank you)
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Great post!
I actually think that there is a third option in the case of an “extreme” reaction to a man hitting on a woman, and that is
3. Maybe she has no way of knowing for sure what your intentions are, her life experiences tell her that there is a considerable possibility that a fairly innocuous comment could escalate into something unpleasant, and she doesn’t want to deal with that possibility right now.
That is, she’s not necessarily reacting only to you and your words and your intentions in this particular situation. She’s reacting based on a set of experiences and a cultural context in which she can’t afford to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And this sucks, for both women and men. It’s another way that patriarchy isolates everyone from everyone else. As a man, it sucks not to be given the benefit of the doubt. It sucks to have people assume the worst about you. And I can only imagine that it probably sucks a lot more as a woman to have to assume the worst about people because there is a constant fear that if you give a guy the benefit of the doubt and talk to him or get in his car or let him into your room, not only might he rape you, but if he does, people will ask, “well, why did you talk to him/get in his car/let him into your room in the first place. You should have known better.”
You are the best!
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I’ve been reading a bunch of your posts and just wanted to say you’re a really brilliant writer.
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I cannot thank the random linking that ended up with me coming to this blog. You are so concise and coherent and damn eloquent on feminism and rape that I feel like I’ve found a person I want all my friends, neighbours and colleagues to read.
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Hi, I followed a link on Facebook from a friend to your blog about the privacy concerns with Google Buzz. But I stayed and read some more and wanted to tell you how much you rock. I especially enjoyed “A Few Things To Stop Doing When You Find a Feminist Blog.”
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Love this, can’t wait to explore the blog & read more. Just wanted to mention Robert Pirsig’s book Lila. It’s about Quality and system of values, using the character of Lila – commonly thought of as a person of low value because of her sexual habits. Either you’ve read it or you should!
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Harriet, people like you are slowly helping me regain faith in humanity.
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My favorite walking-into-philosophy-finals anecdote was the time I was taking a 101-level polisci course in ideologies, and the guest lecturer of the day was a doctoral student in Women’s Studies who helped us out with a brief historical overview of ideological branches within the women’s rights movement, and then when she opened for questions, some moron asked “But isn’t feminism kind of past, now that women are totally equal?”
A common enough dickbag question, but at this point she should have thrown it out, since we were there to learn the history of the movement within the theoretical framework of other political ideologies, not to discuss its current relevance.
Instead of smacking him down, she exerted herself to create an analogy about cakes. “Imagine that societal resources – salaries, civil rights, jobs – are a cake. Women aren’t trying to take the cake away – women are just saying that they deserve a proportional piece of the cake” was more or less her argument.
But thoroughly unchastised, he comes back with, “But it’s men who have baked the cake.”
I frankly give her enormous points for the coherence to explain that this baking wouldn’t have been possible without the unpaid slave labor of women keeping them alive while they did so, not to mention providing all the ingredients; but on the other hand, she probably shouldn’t have bothered. A good verbal smack would have done him more good than a gentle attempt at education.
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I’ve been rereading this post and its comments and something has only just now occurred to me re: Morgan’s anecdote.
First this guy says feminism is over and women are totally equal.
Then, confronted with the cake analogy, instead of maintaining that women already have their due portion of the cake he asserts that men baked it.
That’s a disturbing revelation of his underlying assumptions. Granted that I’m theorizing on the internet about the deeper meaning of something some guy I’ve never met said once to a bunch of other people I’ve never met, it sounds an awful lot like what “women are equal” actually means to him is “women have what they deserve, which is nothing, because men baked the cake, doncha know”.
Eurgh.
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Wow! Thanks for this post. It’s fantastic. I am definitely banking it for later.
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